Showing posts with label people. Show all posts
Showing posts with label people. Show all posts

Wednesday, June 28, 2023

Midwestern Working Class Badasses

This was taken in a restaurant/bar where I used to work in the late 1980s, I was taking a picture of something and the guy in the middle goes, "Hey - take a picture of me and my brothers."
Midwestern Working Class Badasses.
I don't know why he directed me to take their photo. This was before digital cameras and email. There was no photographic instant gratification. Film had to be developed before you could see the pictures. So there was no way the photo was intended for their personal viewing. I guess he just wanted a record of their "brotherhood."  So, I'm posting it here for posterity.  

This is kind of how I imagine everybody looking in the old west. Then, they may have been heroes, or would have at least had a lot more influence, good or bad, in a less civilized era.

Note: The guy on the right is flipping the bird with both hands. "Fuck the World." haha

Monday, July 4, 2022

Every Meximelt

Personal ad placed in the Valentine's Day edition of a local newspaper (Bloomington, IN; Feb. 1992). It is a message from Larry to Laura Lynn. I'm guessing Larry was a Taco Bell employee and Laura Lynn was a customer.

At one point, Larry had apparently taken a photograph of Laura Lynn during one of her visits to his establishment & published it in the local newspaper along with a personal message of love. 


Laura Lynn,
You don't know me, but I love you.
I work at Taco Bell.
I was thinking maybe you love me too,
because you're there so much.
It's your smile I see when I melt the cheese on every Meximelt.
Please be mine.
Larry

[Originally posted on I'm Nacho Steppinstone, Mar. 9, 2004]

Tuesday, June 23, 2020

Thursday, June 18, 2020

Making Money: Venice Beach, pt. 1

Guy juggling knives for money at Venice Beach.

A selection of knives.
Catch!
Balancing & Juggling.

Wednesday, June 10, 2020

Alice Chandler

OC's first female deputy, Alice Chandler: Then & Now (1940s/2000s).

Alice with her portrait by William Mortensen.

Tuesday, June 9, 2020

Jon Sr.

I talked to my dad, Jon Sr. (or “Uncle Jon” to all the cousins), and it sounds like spring fever has officially hit Alaska. He just repurposed an old golf club bag into a custom “gun bag,” modifying it to carry his rifles and shotguns—including his oversized bear gun. The plan is to mount it to the side of his snowmobile for hunting trips.

On a lighter note, I once came across an artist’s rendering of what Elvis might’ve looked like in his 50s. The resemblance to Jon Sr. was uncanny.


Jon Sr. dip-netting Hooligan in 1998.
Elvis in his 50s.


[Originally posted on I'm Nacho Steppinstone, Apr. 26, 2005]

Dick the Bruiser

Dick the Bruiser was a famous regional wrestler in the late 1970s and early 1980s, before the WWF bought out all the regional wrestling districts and brought them under one corporate umbrella.

As Hulk Hogan began appearing everywhere, the old-timers, like Dick the Bruiser, were relegated to wrestling in small-town high school gyms.

That’s how we had the chance to meet him in the late 1980s:

Meeting the legendary Dick the Bruiser.

Dick the Bruiser was a huge deal in the Midwest, and it was both a mixed blessing and a tragedy to see him wrestling in a small Indiana high school gym after the WWF effectively left him jobless.

Gilliomville Message Board commentary on Dick the Bruiser:

Remember when we went to that wrastlin' match at the Fort Wayne Coliseum when we were little kids? That was when Dick the Bruiser was a regional celebrity and his fights were still on TV, right before WWF took over everything.

I remember during one of the matches, someone tried to sneak a blackjack into the ring. I had never even heard of one before. Uncles Jon and Rick had to explain what it was. It was a few years later before I figured out the whole thing was part of the show. 

It was Dick the Bruiser that got smacked with the blackjack. After the show the fans just swarmed him, and we got close enough to Dick the Bruiser to see these little marks the blackjack left all over him. That made me think it was real. 

There was also a guy carrying around a HUGE bone. That was Leon Redbone! He'd jump of the corner rungs and smack people with that big bone. Then a guy from the audience went after Leon's red bone. I thought he was an old man, and I remember him kind of hunched forward pointing, and he kept saying, "He's got the stick. He's got the stick." I'm not sure that was part of the show or not. 
In the late 1980s, Dick the Bruiser was still wrestling, but the show was in our high school gymnasium, instead of on TV. In the heyday of professional wrestling, poor Bruiser was wrestling at high schools! It makes me sick. 

Hulk Hogan ruined Dick the Bruiser. But still, I bet he could have joined on with WWF if he would have wanted to. Why do you think he didn't? 

About 5 years ago I was reading an interview with some old wrestler who was doing a guest referee stint for the WWF. An interviewer asked him, "What was the worst thing you had to smell during your career as a professional wrestler?" His answer: "Dick the Bruiser". I thought that was a pretty strong statement considering I hadn't seen Dick the Bruiser's name in print since I was a kid at one of his shows. Then here's this old timer who'd seen it all and the worst thing he'd smelled was Dick the Bruiser? Come on! I think he had it in for him. He couldn't have smelt THAT bad! 

I just heard a great story about Dick the Bruiser. The Bruiser lived in a pretty nice neighborhood and liked to stir things up. Sometimes when he came home drunk, he liked to put on one of his wife's dresses and wigs and get on his motorcycle and tear through people's yards in the middle of the night. Supposedly, no one ever complained or called the police. Maybe the skid marks Dick left on people's sidewalks added to the value of their property. 

Saturday, May 30, 2020

James, the Former Carny

The spider man guy in the previous post was named James, and I really like working with him. In addition to being a former carny, James is also a barrel of laughs. I took notes yesterday and recorded three noteworthy weird things he said or did:

1.)  Upon walking into the break room and finding Ambush Makeovers on the television -

James: "Fuck this! I don't wanna see an ambush makeover!"
[changes station to Judge Joe Brown]
James: "I wanna see someone get hung!!"

2.)  RE: "Day-O" by Harry Belefonte -

James: "Come Mr. Tallyman, Tally me banana" - You know what that means, don't you?"
Me: "He wants the foreman to count his bananas."
James: "NOoo - well, ok, maybe...but what it really means is he wants a guy to measure his dick."
Me: "HAHAHA"
James: "Well, yeah, 'tally my banana'! That's what it means."

3.)  Spider Venom Contest

James: "Did you know the Daddy Long Legs is the most venomous spider in the world?"
Me: "No."
James: "Yep, but its fangs are so small, they can't break your skin."
Me: "huh!"
James: "Look it up! Or watch the Discovery Channel!!"
Me: "ok."
 James: "And I've always wanted to put a Daddy Long Legs and a Black Widow in a jar together         and see which one would walk out alive."
Me: "YEAH! I want to see too!! Let's do it here at work!"
James: "OK, keep your eyes peeled for a Black Widow and a Daddy Long Legs. And a jar. And keep your gloves on".
Me: "HAHAHAHAHA...OK!"

Other things I remember about James:

1. In the world of day labor, doing something "Mexican-style" means doing it half-assed. I learned that from Jay.  Though the Mexican guys we work with are probably the most competent guys on staff.

2. One day at lunch, somebody asked James, "What would you do if you looked down right now and there was a rattlesnake?"

James said he's always wanted to catch a rattlesnake and if he did, he'd skin it and make a headband out of the skin (with the rattle hanging off the back).

3. I give James a ride back to the Rebel Leady office after work and yesterday's James monologue went something like this:

James: "Did you know the fly is the only animal that can be frozen and then brought back to life?"
Me: "Really?"
James: "Yep - on the Discovery channel they froze one, then thawed it out later and it came back to life".
Me: "Like Captain Ameria!"
James: "Exactly! Freeze me solid and thaw me out in the year 3000! Or better yet, freeze me and thaw me out once there's a cure for AIDS!!"
Me: "hahahaha"
James: "The only other animal that can be frozen and brought back to life is the lobster. You can  freeze a lobster solid, then throw it in boiling water and the fucker will scream every time! You killed him once, now you're killing him again!!...Imagine doing that to a human!"

[Originally posted on Rebel Leady Boy, July 16, 2005]

Thursday, May 28, 2020

Huell

Glad I got to meet Huell Howser once. He lived up to his TV image totally.

Huel's autograph.
I'm not sure exactly when we got to meet him, but whenever it was, it was the 16th:

16th:  Huell Howser.

Saturday, May 23, 2020

TNC

Meeting underground comics creator, Joyce Farmer, of Tits N Clits fame.
Laguna Beach, CA; March, 2014.

Nelda introduced me to her when she came into the library to get help loading eBooks onto her Kindle before leaving on a speaking tour.  I was star struck.
Later, she even signed my collection! 

Joyce Farmer.
Signed copies.

Thursday, May 14, 2020

Don't Go To Bed...

So, this morning, a guy I'm making a website for tells me about a bail bondsman he knows named Moses.  When I asked who Moses was, he told me Moses was an ex-biker, turned bail bondsman/bounty hunter with a steel CAGE built into the trunk of his car. For people. He is apparently a hard core mother fucker.

But the best thing of all about Moses his his promotional t-shirt:

Moses' promotional t-shirt.

Nothing subtle about it.
And if that isn't enough to cram onto one shirt, the front displays a huge caption:

"Don't go to bed with a price on your head."

The sleeves are emblazoned with sharks:

Sleeve detail.

I just can't believe the awesomeness of this t-shirt. The back panel incorporates Moses posed as the Biblical Moses, parting a shark infested ocean so a car can drive through. The caption reads, "When you're in deep water, call Moses."

Back panel images, wide view.

8 Commandments detail.
"Thou shall not croak."




[Originally posted on I'm Nacho Steppinstone, May 18, 2004]

Friday, May 8, 2020

Which JohnnyC Quote are You?

In the mid-2000s, JohnnyC emailed me a list of outrageous metal quotations he had written down and saved. I was not sure what to do with them, but I thought they should be shared. I didn't know how to incorporate them into my blog, so the Which JohnnyC Quote are You? quiz was born. 

Original banner link to the quiz.
The quiz is no longer active. I may have to recreate it, but until then, here's a reproduction:


Which JohnnyC Quote are You?


JohnnyC has said a lot of crazy shit.
Which JohnnyC quote best characterizes you?


1. Which statement appeals to you the most?
a. "Lick my plate, you dog dick”.
b. "Nothing damages better than a brand new building”.
c. “Blarney Balls”!
d. "Bus Driver, I want to drive your bus”.
e. "I'm gonna try to get some off a skank at the Motel 6”.

2. If you could have any number of eyes besides two, how many would you prefer?
a. None            .
b. One.
c. Three to Nineteen.
d. Twenty.
e. More than twenty.

3. Which element best characterizes you?
a. Earth .
b. Wind.
c. Fire.
d. Water.
e. Meat.

4. You are pissed off because:
a. You are horny.
b. You only have one eye.
c. Your favorite electronics warehouse has vanished without a trace
d. They put cheese on your burger even though you told them:
    "Hamburger, not cheeseburger."
e. All of the above.

5. Who rocks harder?
a. Metallica.
b. Van Halen (David Lee Roth).
c. Van Halen (Sammy Hagar).
d. AC/DC.
e. Kiss

6. If you had to eat only one thing, what would you prefer?
a. White Castle.
b. Vienna sausages.
c. Something without cheese.
d. Poontang.
e. Nachos.

Possible Results
(sorted from most to least popular)

1. Rage and Mayhem - 24% of participants, awarded 61 times:


The clouds in the sky above float weightless, yet they attack me as if made of lead and crush me in fits of rage and mayhem.

2. Automated Warriors - 15% of participants, awarded 38 times:

Licking the fresh wounds of indifferent weapons, the helldogs gather behind the automated warriors and launch a terror assault against the demon children of mistrust and misunderstanding.

3. Misunderstood Agony - 14% of participants, awarded 35 times:

I bleed not red but the crimson of hate and the fire orange of misunderstood agony, and my mind is the chimney for the raging firebox of my tortured soul.


4. Wall Not Yet Built - 12% of participants, awarded 31 times:

Rain down upon me the drops of searing lust for destruction of wall not yet built and the wet tears of souls not hearing their destiny.

5. Ill Gotten Animals - 9% of participants, awarded 23 times:


Feed me the meat of ill gotten animals and let my disease begin to spread across the universe.


6. Beginnings of Armageddon - 6% of participants, awarded 14 times:


The sirens wail and the nukes rain down as the loathsome cowards, otherwise known as the world leaders, gather in their cocoons of sin and larceny, watching the beginnings of Armageddon in their palaces of anti-terror"

7. Beginnings of Armageddon - 6% of participants, awarded 14 times:

The cold skin of fear creeps down my back leading the last morsels of conscious thought into a paranoid rage as the curtains of night close on the theater of ultimate terror.

8. Retribution Against the Demons - 6% of participants, awarded 14 times:


The scorched earth,blackened by flames of tortured souls, screams in agony for retribution against the demons and vandals who lit the match with their blood stained fingers

9. My Festering Soul - 4% of participants, awarded 11 times:

Every passing of the satellites overhead keeps me cowering in fear of demons in black who wait for my miserable failure, feasting on my festering soul.

10.  Bleeding in the Gutter4% of participants, awarded 9 times:

As the mulleted skull lay bleeding in the gutter, I silently observed the remnants of horror in the eyes reminding me that rock and roll will never die, but flesh and blood is flesh and blood. 

Thursday, May 7, 2020

The Drunken Boat

Valdez Harbor, crack of dawn.
Surviving journal fragment, providing a pretty accurate picture of what it was like hanging out with Donald Kilbuck in the late 1990s:

July 1, 1998 - In the early evening, I was surprised by a knock at the door. I looked through the peep-hole and saw Donald Kilbuck laughing his ass off in the stairwell for no apparent reason. He's tired of his job in Valdez and has returned to Anchorage. Further questioning revealed his Native Corporation Check is due so he won't have to worry about work for awhile.

He plans to use the money from his check to ferry his van to Kodiak where he'll stay until his next Native Check arrives. Then he will use that money to deliver himself back to Anchorage. Well, we all need something to do.

I ended up joining him on a spontaneous 6-hour drive to Valdez where he planned to deliver a bag of clothing to his friend, Patrick.

The roadtrip scenery was beautiful as always, but especially so considering the sunny weather, there was none of Valdez's characteristic rain. We rolled in to town around 2:00 a.m. & hung out at Ihe Sugarloaf Bar which is owned by the Village Inn (Donald's workplace for the past month). 

Posted above the bar, for all to see, was a chalkboard with the message, "Today's Specials" painted on the top section of the frame. Instead of drink prices, the board said, "You're In Good Hands With Allstate - Jon D. Gilliom" & then my phone number! Donald's doing obviously. I have no idea how long it had been up there.

I was pleased to learn the bar did not close until 4:30 a.m. & started in on beer by the pitcher. Donald was determined to wait around until 3:30 a.m. & then go wake Patrick up & give him a ride to work (he works at the Sugarloaf too). The bar was a lot of fun & there were a lot of cool fishery workers in town from all over the country.

By closing time, Donald returned without Patrick. Apparently it was Patrick's night off & he did not appreciate the wake-up visit at all. As the bar began to close, a fellow named Chris offered to take us out on his boat, so we bought a six pack to go, the bartender charged us $18.00 for it! He claimed that since the bar was technically closed, he could get in a lot of trouble for selling. We were drunk enough to go through with the transaction.

At this point, we weren't sure if Chris was bullshitting us or not, but we were just going with the flow. Who cares? Sure enough, once we arrived at the dock, Chris pulled the battery out of his car, stuck it in a boat, and we were off.

As the sun came up, we were taking turns steering the boat around Valdez Harbor. It was beautiful and invigorating. When the beer was gone, we returned to the dock, reattached the car battery, and I offered to buy Chris breakfast in exchange for the boat ride. By now, it was after 7:00 a.m. and we were on our way to Sunday morning breakfast at the Totem Inn.

Donald & Chris in the cabin.
Chris, our Captain.
We really ordered up at the Totem Inn, but by the time our food came, Chris was face down on the table. I don't think he ate a bite of his breakfast. The restaurant became very full as the Sunday morning crowd was arriving. Chris was drawing a lot of looks and comments. I can't believe they didn't kick us out. Donald and I just laughed and ate as if everything were normal. We were super hungry and not about to leave, no matter how many people were staring.

When we were finished, we carried Chris out. Luckily he was able to vaguely direct us to a friend's house (or we interpreted it that way). We left him laying on the front porch and then began our three hour drive back to Anchorage.

Friday, April 17, 2020

Foot Treatments (Reflexology)

As discussed on the Gilliomville message board:

Grandma Hazel always wanted to give foot massages, and they were ruff, she used to dig into my foot and crunch the arches, it felt like glass was breaking in my foot, grandma would say it was the crystals breaking, I would ask why there are crystals in my feet, and she responded it was from drinking too much pop.

She would always work out the "crystals.” She'd say it was unhealthy to let those "crystals" build up in your feet. There always was something kind of popping when she rubbed the foot though, I guess it was just muscle tension or something, but I believed her and imagined crystals were developing in my feet. I believed that as gospel for years until I realized I'd never heard anybody else talk about crystals in their feet. I don't know when I stopped believing in foot crystals, but I never actively disbelieved it. I just learned it was a weird topic that was best left undiscussed with my fellow school children.

After Hazel gave foot treatments, she would have the grandkids do her feet too haha - she knew we hated to do that, so she'd let us divide the work - one kid per foot. Then Todd and I would each only have to do one foot. It was pretty horrible though. She had gnarly toe nails.

Hazel called those foot massages, "foot treatments.” She practically considered it a medical procedure. She learned this from Saul the Amishman who sold vitamins, gave foot treatments, and was widely hailed as a miracle worker in the area. He would not charge anything for a consultation, though you would have to pay for any vitamins he prescribed. 

Some days, Saul would work by appointment, but one day of the week was "first come, first serve.” Saul's Amish farm would be full of cars, sometimes people would come from outside the state to be diagnosed and treated by Saul. Grandma credited him with all kinds of miracles. My Dad had a recurring condition that kept returning despite the advice of a number of conventional doctors, but after he had Saul look at it, it was cured for good.

One year, Saul sold more vitamins from a particular company than anybody else in the country, so the vitamin company told him he won a free car. Since he was Amish though, he could not accept it; so they bought him a new buggy instead. Hazel said she saw the buggy and, "it was a really nice one.”

I remember Saul had a day of first come first serve. Mom said there was a guy that was there at 4:00 am and just slept in Saul's yard till he opened at 7:00 am. Jonnie, I remember the new buggy! That Saul sure could sell the vitamins!!

Saul (and Hazel) believed in the pseudoscience called Reflexology, though they never called it by that name. Reflexologists (and Hazel, and me as a child) believed that particular areas of the foot corresponded to other organs of the body and when that organ is experiencing problems, there is corresponding tension in that area of the foot. By massaging the tension out of a particular area of the foot, a person can make the corresponding organ healthier as well.

When Hazel was rubbing my feet and something would hurt, she'd say, "That's your kidneys"! I totally believed it as a kid, Hazel seemed to be so sure that's how it was and Saul was such an esteemed figure, it never crossed my mind they didn't know what they were talking about.

Reflexologists refer to diagrams or maps of the human foot with all the corresponding body parts written on it, so if somebody has tension in a certain part of the foot, you can find out which corresponding body is unhealthy. Some years ago, I was showing somebody one of these diagrams and it had everything - kidneys, liver, sinuses, head etc. marked. The only thing missing was the feet. We were laughing about that. Apparently, reflexologists don't account for troubled feet. If your foot hurts, it is always symptomatic of a different body part.

What a weird thing! And it seemed so normal to us to go to Grandma's and get foot treatments.

Grandma took me to see Saul once - He looked in my eyes with a magnifying glass and he could tell what vitamins or herbs your body needed. He would place a container of a particular herb or vitamin in your hand then ask you to stick the other arm straight out, then he would grab it like a lever, say "Resist me", and try to push it down. Then he would have you hold a different vitamin or herb and do the same thing. If a vitamin wouldn't help you resist him, he would not prescribe it, but if it gave you the strength to keep your arm up while he pushed against it, then that meant your body needed that one.

He told me I needed potassium and then Grandma added, "You should eat bananas every chance you get.” I think I left with about four different herbs he said I needed.

Thursday, April 16, 2020

Grandma Hazel

Grandma Hazel in 1990.
Grandma Hazel, remembered by her children and grandchildren on the Gilliomville messageboard:

When Uncle Jon was a kid, he and Grandma Hazel witnessed a bunch of Mexicans drive by in a tomato truck. Hazel told him to stay away from Mexicans, “because they carry knives.”


Grandma would let us buy Cracked and Crazy magazines, but she thought Mad was "naughty.” I don't know what she saw in that magazine at some point in the past, but she definitely didn't like it. She'd check the titles before we went through our drugstore (Hooks) checkout and would not, under any circumstances, let us buy an issue of Mad magazine.


I remember those Vitamin Cs that Grandma used to give out (and she would encourage you to take several) that were supposed to help make you healthier. They tasted a lot like Sweet Tarts.

We'd often drop by Dairy Queen and she'd say, "If you're good, I'll get you a Mr. Misty; you can have any flavor except for red.” When asked why we couldn't get a red one, she said it’s because, "red makes kids hyper.” I’m Surprised Grandma didn't start an organization called GARP - Grandmas Against Red Pop.

She was also always predicting a HORRIBLE winter. She would say, "some lady says..."

Thanks for talking about Grandma Gilliom on here. I checked the board last night before I went to bed and last night I had a dream about her. Her hair was perfect.

Does anyone else remember seeing Grandma without her hair piece? She'd comb her hair out all crazy just before an appointment. I didn't see her like that very often, and it scared me to death.

Yeah! She looked wild without her wig on! Like a whole different person - an old witch! Her wig made her look much more poised and civilized.

Grandma Hazel used to whip up huge batches of caramel popcorn in the kitchen sink – she’d make caramel popcorn balls out of it. It was always a huge event when she’d do that.

I think we Gillioms have a special love for McDonalds due to Grandma Hazel. How many times she took Adam and me to Mikky Dees I couldn't tell you. but each time I was just as excited as the first time. That's what Happy Meals do to you. Ya know, I still order a good Happy Meal every now and then depending on how hungry I am.

Hazel used to LOVE McDonald's ice cream cones. She'd go there specifically for an ice cream cone. Breakfast too. Nowadays, I'm a big fan of the breakfast sandwich, but with Hazel we'd get the sit-down meals. Hazel wasn't one to eat on the run.

I remember when Grandma lived at Capri Meadows and you could see McDonald's from her window. Sometimes, when it was kind of late and we were thinking about making an ice cream cone run, she would tell me to, "check and see if the golden arches are lit up."

When she moved to the next place, we could actually WALK to McD's! That was even better. Vanilla ice cream cones and late night Skip-Bo...that brings back memories.

I think she quit cooking after she moved to the apartment. I remember
walking to McDonalds and Dairy Queen after that. She was big on
DQ banana splits.

Yeah - I remember her having meals delivered by the "Schwann Man" when she was living at the apartment. She was delighted by how good the food was.

I remember Dad saying he was in McDonalds with Grandma Hazel one time and she exclaimed (real loud like she did), "There sure are a lot of black people in here”!  Dad was real embarrassed and told her firmly, "Mom, if you don't settle down, I'm going to leave.” Grandma responded, "Well...There are!”

Grandma Gilliom was usually a really good cook. Her pancakes were excellent, but when it came to eggs, she always cooked the yolks really hard and you couldn't dip them. Uncle Jon and Uncle Rick used to comment a lot about, "mom's eggs."

For breakfast, I remember Grandma used to make us chocolate chip pancakes at the trailer.

And peanut butter spread on hot toast. That's another thing she got me into.
I love peanut butter on toast. I always thought it was weird when she did it, but it goes so well with coffee.

Remember when egg McMuffins first came out and Hazel decided to make them herself at home?

I was amazed at that. The McMuffin seemed like such a new thing and here Grandma Hazel mimics it instantly. I probably just wasn't familiar with English muffins at that point in time, so I was amazed that she made them just like McDonalds. I guess I thought if she made them at home, she would have to use bread or buns or something. They were an immediate favorite. She made those for years.

Remember when she used to make those doughnuts out of canned biscuits? A few years ago I called Mom and said, "I miss Grandma Gilliom. I think it's high time the great grandchildren experience her doughnuts." I can't say that the girls were terribly impressed.

Friday, April 3, 2020

Valdez Pat

Forgot about this guy:
Pat.
 We met Pat in Valdez, Alaska, after our roadtrip from the midwest. He used to smoke pot out of a hollowed-out deer antler.

Pat samples Laura's campfire cooking as YaYa laughs (right)..

I remember him telling us his first ancestor to arrive in America spent their first night in America in jail. He said that as soon as land was in sight, his ancestor grabbed the first mate and threw him overboard because he'd been giving him shit during the entire journey.

[Originally posted on I'm Nacho Steppinstone, Feb. 24, 2004]